Resource Description
Classical Conversations offers both community classes and curriculum resources for individual use. Foundations is the curriculum guide for K4 to 6th grade, Essentials for 3rd and up, and Challenge for 7th to 12th. The community classes meet throughout the US and Canada. From the website:
"Our three curriculum programs support your home-centered education by providing teaching tools for you, the parent, and quality educational materials for your student. Our guides, books, timeline cards, and multimedia resources have been thoughtfully crafted and selected. The math, science, literature, Latin, history, geography and fine arts studied in our Foundations Program represent a broad and interesting body of information. Our Essentials Program students work toward mastering English language skills and improving their writing technique. As students move into our Challenge Program and work toward becoming independent learners, they read, discuss, debate, analyze and write about award-winning literature—always within the framework of history and a biblical worldview.
"Our Foundations Communities serve children in the early stages, roughly ages 4 to 11. Foundations parents and students meet once a week for 24 weeks during the school year. Once late-elementary students enter the dialectic stage of learning, they join peers in our Essentials Communities, which usually meet in the afternoons after Foundations. In the middle and high school years, students hone their dialectic and rhetoric skills in our Challenge Communities."
Website: Classical Conversations
(70 Reviews)
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Contributor Reviews
Reviews are solely the opinions of the contributor.
Cons: Not really a con, but it can be overwhelming if you feel the need to finish every single item. You need to scale back some when needed.
Grades Used: 7th-11th
Classical Conversations was an awesome experience for our family. The curriculum is rigorous and only missing math. If completed, the credits are more than required for highschool graduation. I've heard the mlm stories, but never saw anything like that. There was no pressure to "buy in" to anything except my child's education- which is what every parent does with every curriculum. Having said that, each group is run by different people in different settings so no one can really apply their experience to all of CC everywhere. CC is heavy in history, language arts, and public speaking.
Cons: Cost
Grades Used: K-12
I graduated from CC and loved it the whole way through. My CC was the first one in Montana and we had the same director for 13+ years. She was amazing. Unfortunately, she left two years ago due to a disagreement and is now hosting her own community against the rules. Our current director is great, too.
I grew up knowing only CC as my school. I had the same friends through all levels, and have also had the opportunity to see my three younger siblings working through the material and my older brother graduate. This may give me a bit of a bias.
Foundations is a great beginning for youngsters, all the strands interlocking with each other and God. I understand that many communities and teachers don't focus on Biblical morals, due to religious differences. Our community had a Mormon family for a few years, and several messianic prostelyte jews, too. We never had any trouble. I would say that if you are a family that doesn't want your kids to be bathed in all things God, then our specific community is not for you. I loved learning all the different songs and facts in Foundations, and the perfectly formatted Grammar stage of learning is a fantastic first step for elementary students.
Essentials provided an amazing second step. Diagramming is usually something students don't learn until high school, but most people don't understand how easily 4-6th graders can grasp the material. I did, and I started Essentials in 3rd grade. And the writing assignments are just the right beginning for LTW and exposition in Challenge.
Many of the other reviews claim that Challenge presented too much material too fast. You may find this is true for yourself, but your child may find the opposite. I ha trouble keeping up with the reading in Challenge 2, but that wasn't because there was too much. It was because I was lazy. My brothers hated Latin, so my mom allowed them to stop learning it after Challenge 2. I loved Latin, so I continued until I graduated. My older brother and one of his classmates and one of my classmates only did Debate and Reasoning in Challenge 4, while I and my one classmate left did everything in Challenge 4. In B, we had 8 students, one by one they left through the Challenges until there were only 2 and a third of us left in 4. (I say a third because one student did only 2 out of the 6 subjects.)
Learning all I did through CC has given me an easy door into college and furthering my life. I did CC+ in Challenge 2, and my best friend did it in 2 and 3, and switched to only college in 4, so she graduated this last year from college with a bachelor's degree. That was only about 8 months after she graduated from high school.
The community was great, too. All the moms and students had a bond and shared a unique fellowship over this education system, and we spend every day building each other up in the Lord. There was no bullying in Challenge, and rarely in the lower levels. It has been a fantastic and invaluable experience for me.
I only found out a few weeks ago how much CC costs per student per year. Wow! But budgeting can work wonders, and even though my parents were poverty when we started, they aren't any more, even after having three children in Challenge, two in Foundations, and one in Essentials. It helped when my mom started tutoring, which has almost canceled out the cost. But they don't do it because it's easy. They do it because it's hard, and students will rise to a challenge.
Cons: Too much too fast in the Challenge years
Grades Used: k-10th
*UPDATE*
I have a previous post on 9/13/2022. I have since removed all my boys from CC. Challenge B proved within a couple weeks that it was not a good fit anymore for my son. Although I love the Essentials program, it was no longer a good fit for my 6th grader. And I just pulled out my oldest from Challenge 2. 2nd semester of Challenge 2 had him reading a book and writing the essay that week along with preparing for debate or researching 2 artists and writing a comparison paper amongst the other subjects. My son came to me saying that he was overwhelmed and wasn't able to comprehend the information because he had to do them so fast. He felt like he was drowning. I want my son to be able to slow down and comprehend what he is reading. My husband and I have felt the same about the firehose approach with the curriculum. I did tailor the reading, but he also needed to be prepared to discuss each book in the Socratic Circle each week as well, so even if I waited on the paper, he still had to race through a book. I am using the core subjects still at home with him, but we can slow way down to a doable pace. I have seen him relax in this last week and he is easily doing the work now. It's like a huge weight has been lifted.
Cons: CC is corrupt
Grades Used: Foundations/Essentials
We are coming out of an amazing community. The families are all like minded and loving. This was the best community experience we’ve ever had homeschooling. It had nothing to do with Classical Conversations I assure you.
CC the organization is trash. I tutored so I learned the “rules” real fast. The rules are complicated and truly make it hard to tutor or participate as a parent. The “curriculum” is mediocre and it doesn’t change so I’m confused as to why it cost so much. The tuition hardly stays with the community leaders and instead goes to the area reps and above. Tutors and directors are asked/demanded to do many tasks and are hardly compensated while the AR are encouraged to break communities apart and start new ones so they can profit monetarily. It reads MLM big time. The website sucks but you still pay hundreds a year to use it. Even though everything put on there is put on by other parents and they are not compensated for that. The “bookstore “ has out right lies in their descriptions and if you can ever get someone in customer service to respond to inquiries you won’t receive very kind interactions and you sure as heck won’t be granted a full or partial refund.
the actual mission they claim “to know God and make him known” is a lie. They are in it for profit. God is rarely mentioned in the curriculum. If you’re blessed to have an amazing tutor then your family will see God in everything you do on community day but this is not encouraged by CC. In fact they discourage it because of how different the religious backgrounds of the community members are. The workload CC pushes is so ridiculous and unmanageable. If you’re not guarded you will feel unequipped to homeschool your children. I often leave our community day feeling run down, overwhelmed and depressed. When I sift out the bones and trash from what CC wants us to do I feel free and fully capable of homeschooling my 6 kids.
Run mamas! You are fully equipped to homeschool and you don’t need a corrupt program like this ti make you think otherwise. You also don’t need to spend your life savings trying to belong to a community program that isn’t for the good of the actual community.
Cons: Peer Issues
Grades Used: Challenge A and Challenge 1
I want to start this review by stating this is my personal experience with one campus. My experience does not define CC as a whole. I partially attended Challenge A and for the most part I had a positive experience. The tutor was kind and encouraging and I made some friends.
I am also in Challenge 1 currently and frankly, my experience hasn’t been the greatest for me. There’s a boy in my class who’s mean and arrogant and isn’t very kind to me. He gets to make inappropriate comments on a somewhat weekly basis and he gets away with it, but for me, I made a small error and some people in my class trash talks me behind my back and nobody in my class will be friends with me. I’ve had people say mean things to me and to be fair, some people try to be nice, but I’ll never have any real friends there, which is a real bummer.
People can be very judgemental and rude and the girls and boys can be quite cliquey. On a positive note, my tutor is a nice lady and she can teach quite well, encourage, and have firmness too. Challenge 1 isn’t the worst bullying experience I’ve ever had and while I’ve had a few insults thrown at me, I haven’t been physically attacked or anything like that. The curriculum is decent, but a lot of the work planning is on the parents, so if you a parent who wants to be hands off with your child’s schooling, CC is not the program for you!
Friendship in CC is a huge hit or miss, but for my Challenge 1 experience, it was a humongous miss. I’m sure some communities are much kinder and more accepting, but my experience has been overshadowed by arrogant kids, unfair ostracizing, and judgement. No place is gonna guarantee friends, not even a friendship club may guarantee friendship and no exclusion. But overall, good program, but huge hit or miss community.
Run, don't walk, away from Classical Conversations! Money is the main goal, not service to homeschool families. MLM!! The Bortins on top of the pyramid earn big bucks off of everyone else. We did not even realize CC is an MLM for several years after starting and I was even a tutor. Please read Julie Roy's report on CC before commiting (Which will come in January -February for an August begin date!!). And remember, you will be held to every penny, even in a situation beyond your control, such as a move. A family in our group transferred with the dad's job to in the fall of the school year and they got $0 back for three kids, even though their spos were filled by other students. Money, money money for the Bortins is the #1 goal. Beware and choose wisely!!!!
Cons: Shallow friendships, untrained teachers, very expensive, Eurocentric curriculum, underwhelming Science experiments, shady business practices
Grades Used: 2-5
Classical Conversations is way overpriced for what you get. We did 3 years of foundations but my kids remembered nothing after we left. In fact, we joined a free homeschool program afterwards and found out that both my kids had serious gaps in their education. Thank goodness we discovered this while my kids were younger and had the chance to catch up. In addition, the adults that teach at CC (called tutors) only receive just hours of training and it shows. The curriculum is very Eurocentric and has no mention of the Civil Rights Movement or the Holocaust in the younger years. The younger curriculum (Foundations) also repeats every 3 years. A lot of the science experiments were very underwhelming and basic. Despite all of its problems, I mostly joined and stayed for the community aspect but once we left, those friendships disappeared. They were very shallow relationships and I encountered a lot of shunning after we left the group. In all I wish I had saved my money and joined our current free homeschool program instead of spending all that money on Classical Conversations. Julie Roys also did some reporting into their shady business practices.
Cons: The company has a money priority over a Christian priority
Grades Used: Foundations
My daughter was bullied by the directors child who’s twice her age. The company has a less than Christian attitude towards the problem. They refuse to refund me despite locking me out of the online books then saying one thing has nothing to do with the other. Completely dishonest. I am so disappointed in this company. My 4 year old isn’t obligated to continue to go after being bullied 2/3 days she attended.
Cons: Challenge- Too much too fast/ can be overwhelming
Grades Used: prek- 10th grade
I have been using Classical Conversations for 10+ years. My boys have gone through the Foundations, Essentials, and Challenge programs. Now that I have the vantage point of seeing all levels, I feel as though I can speak from an educated point of view. I have tutored all Foundations levels, and I have also directed the F/E levels.
I love the foundations levels with all the music, movement, and the freedom to explore at different learning levels. There are 7 subjects with a sentence/ information to memorize each week. With the younger ages, I just used song, movement, and repetition at home, but as they got older, I used the songs, movement, etc plus some hands on and books to dig in a little more.
The Essentials portion, which is for 4th- 6th grade levels, is a 3 year program which covers the same information each year, but by the 3rd year, the student is very well versed in grammar and writing. CC uses the Essentials in English Grammar, and IEW writing courses. Both excellent teaching curriculum.
The Challenge years, which are 7th-12th grade years, switches up the program. It absolutely uses the Foundations memory work, but builds on that with truly taking the opportunity to dig in further and find understanding. Unfortunately, I find that it moves so fast, like being drenched constantly by a firehose, that the quality of what you could learn is drowned out by the quantity. I feel as though the joy of learning is quickly lost by too much information and trying to keep up which becomes overwhelming to the student. I realize that the point of CC is to learn skills, and I have seen that in my 2 older boys, but also, I believe that the ability to take time to soak in and learn is lost and there is no room to breathe. My oldest is now in Challenge 2, and I have learned to make the curriculum work for us and not work for the curriculum, but I think I would have pulled him out if it had not been for the classmates that he has grown up with being in his class. My middle son, who is now in Challenge B, does not have the close class that my older son has, and I am not planning to have him continue into the high school years with CC. I just don't think it works for him and that he will flourish better with a more traditional type curriculum. We decided to have our youngest, who is in 6th grade, only do the Essentials program this year due to its solid curriculum. He is also enrolled in a different co-op that has a great balance of electives and academic classes. He is finding joy again in learning. I don't plan to have him continue into the Challenge program in CC.
Overall, CC has been great for us throughout the years. I think the F/E years built a great foundation for learning. I do see our oldest finishing out CC through his high school years, but I do not see my younger 2 continuing after this year. I feel as though the Challenge years are too much too fast, quantity over quality, but I also see great skills that are learned. I would recommend understanding how your child learns and that not every curriculum is a one size fits all and that ways of learning may change over the years as they get older.
Cons: Costs
Grades Used: Foundations
Been in it for 3 years. I have only done 1 other traditional co-op and I can say parents are more committed with CC and less likely to flake out last minute. I like that each week is Basically the same which makes it easier to implement at home. Not a fan of some of the science experiments, but love the drawing & art portions. The upfront costs are a lot but tutoring has helped in that area. Our community isn’t perfect but each year things seem a bit more smooth.
Cons: Subject to the moral character to the director
Grades Used: Challenge 1 and 2
We were very disappointed in our director’s response to our concerns about the behavior of the students in her class, including her own son. While she practices forgiveness, she seems to be lacking at discipline. My daughter has experienced harassment and victim blaming. We had to pull her due to the director’s negligence.
Cons: Wish it was more than once per week.
Grades Used: Foundations
I am surprised by a few reviews, but understand that some groups and communities may vary. Our group seems to very accurately reflect the Classical Conversations mission - "To know God and make Him known." I am excited to have found this community and look forward to many years together.
Cons: legal liability, educational advancement and freedom not allowed, mental and emotional manipulation
Grades Used: Foundations and Essentials
I was referred to Classical Conversations by a friend. As a parent my community days were fine. As a tutor it was rigorous going over the English program. The Essentials Guide and other recommended material for English grammar is hard to understand and honestly, a waste of my time. To tutor I ended up using a different curriculum to understand the concepts, which I had to teach.
As a director, which you must pay the company to do, I had to find my own church and was told that I make all decisions on my own, autonomy. But often, the case was that my decisions were disregarded when families didn't get their way (as I followed corporate guidelines) then employees pushed me aside to side with parents, so they could keep the business and look like the good guys.
Directors are committed for an entire year and a half for a single school year. 80% of the work is volunteered time, with minimal compensation. The work of tutoring and directing are full time jobs, without even minimum wage (which is an under statement).
When faced with challenging situations and families, I was asked to appease the irate people, instead of letting them go. I was encouraged to use mental manipulation on parents (a tactic employees often use). When I expressed my concerns for liability to corporate, I was first ignored, then accused of not behaving in a Christian manner, then closely monitored.
I reached out using their required Matthew 18 model to talk with corporate employees about the lack of support during serious matters to try to resolve some serious issues that were difficult for me. The situation was turned around on me. I was cut off often, then I was accused of personal attacks, then not allowed to defend myself.
My children were forced to be held back from their actual grade levels because of their ages did not align with the programs.
This is not a program for educational freedom. It is a for-profit company, which words itself as an institution, masking itself as a ministry, and often uses mental and emotional manipulation to keep families enrolled. It is a multi-level marketing system that preys on families searching for Christian based homeschool.
Cons: Middle and High School Curriculum is lacking in math and science.
Grades Used: 1st thru 6th
I loved the foundations curriculum for CC, but found their customer support very poor. If you are stuck with an inept tutor or director, you will be politely reminded that their are no refunds. If an egregious deed has to you by a CC tutor on a CC day, you are expected to handle it yourself and are reminded of the passage in Matthew 18. I hosted a CC community at my farm. During the day, a CC tutor, who was an competitor coach for another team, helped themselves to my team's event binder by taking it out of the cupboard, taking pictures of it, and downloaded the pictures to their team member, all while I was absent from that room. I followed the Matthew 18 outline with no success. I am still shunned today, and CC leadership refuses to use their position of authority to better my situation.
Cons: Zero
Grades Used: Zero
TAGS: Joni Nichols, homeschool, Homeschooling, Parent, Parent Preparation, Curriculum, Classical Conversations, Classical Education, Selection, Community, Resources
Cons: Students and teachers must be able to plan and organize; too fast-paced for some; places a strong emphasis on English composition; students must be honest and held accountable..
Grades Used: Foundations through Challenge III
I am a Challenge III student, having spent six years in Classical Conversations from Foundations till now. Because I have spent the vast majority of my academic life as a homeschooled student, I can only base my experience (in comparison to public schooled student) on second-hand reports.
However, what I can tell you, readers, is this: CC is intellectually rigorous once you enter Challenge, and not for the faint of heart. English composition is necessary, since many of each strand include some aspects of exposition. Additionally, most of my peers find it difficult to keep up with Latin, and he/she will struggle if he/she dislikes writing. I am unable to count how many of my fellow students have dropped out, not because of extenuating circumstances, but because of the sheer mental fortitude and diligence that this program demands. If you follow the Challenge guide to a tee, then you must be prepared for some sacrifice.
CC has worked for me, as a consequence of my natural inner-perfectionist. I am driven, focused, and thrive among mental challenges. I adhere to CC's standards, and my mother's standards. She is a nurse anesthetist, one of the best in her field of expertise, and as such, maintains a strict code of efficiency. I am an over-achiever, a logistician, a lover of knowledge. A competitive environment provides me a thrill of satisfaction. Science, Latin, and English are the subjects at which I excel. I prefer order over chaos, logic over emotion, theories and rhetoric over hands-on practicality. People with similar mindsets will succeed using CC, as long as their goals are to learn, and continue to learn. My mother (and teacher) share this.
Some of my fellow peers, however, do not share that thirst for knowledge. Those that do enjoy learning are not self-motivated, and struggle to plan far ahead. This is practically a prerequisite for CC. Once your student(s) begin Challenge, they must be capable of prioritizing and planning for their assignments, and possess the determination to follow through with those plans. My twin sister, whose personality deviates wildly from my own, at first struggled once she entered Challenge, since she is free-spirited and hates rule-based environments. Since then, she has learned to adapt, and has reached success via hard work.
Evaluate your children's learning styles. Are they more "hands-on"? Visual? Does your student enjoy building, touching? Of course, you can supplement CC with alternative mediums, but if your student is less inclined towards a fast-paced, rigorous, and self-driven program, then CC is not for you. It is structured and academically stimulating, each strand demanding time, effort, and commitment. If this seems too difficult, then, well, yes--it is too difficult. Those who loath structure and organization will find themselves floundering, grasping for a metaphorical scapegoat to blame their fortunes (or lack thereof): poor administrators, fickle bearucracy, mean directors, mean cliques, mean parents . . . It all comes down to your learning styles, not necessarily your capacity to learn. If you don't have high educational expectations, then you immediately set yourself up for failure because of low expectations.
Cons: expensive, exclusive, poor leadership, poor training
Grades Used: Foundations, Essentials, Challenge B, Challenge 2, Challenge 3, Challenge 4
Where do I start.... No accountability for leadership. Each Director is an independent contractor so no one can actually be held accountable for actions or decisions. Issues were brought to CC Corporate but they did not ever respond because Corporate has legally separated themselves from the actual function and application of their curriculum. Several issues were brought through the chain of command and the responses were everything from lies to denial and manipulation. Sometimes even sensing a serious pride and control that they really want over how you homeschool, even though all their literature and training says otherwise. How do I know? I was on the inside of how it all works.
Please also keep in mind that if you are looking for a Christian curriculum, this is NOT it! You actually have to purchase a separate Bible curriculum for your family. In Foundations (we did 3 years), notice there really isn't anything "Christian" about what is taught. Same goes for Essentials. The IEW Program is very good but it is not produced by CC so you can purchase it elsewhere.
Based on my experience as a Director... most students don't come prepared and parents aren't involved.
Oh! I didn't mention that most Directors don't want parents in the Challenge Class with them? I saw way too many emails where Directors complained about parents being in class and asking for the best way to ask them to leave. OMG! Very disheartening!
So, If you're looking for affordable, this isn't it.... If you're looking for Christian, this isn't it (just look at the curriculum and the books they have to read)... If you're looking for an elitist mentality, look no further.
Cons: expensive; abusive behavior from corporate reps; gaps in Challenge (7+) program; curriculum error-filled yet "updated" often to require repurchase; MLM structure;
Grades Used: Foundations through Challenge
(This review needs to be intentionally vague on personal details as I and my community have experienced firsthand the backlash that comes from saying anything negative about Classical Conversations, so please pardon this.) CC has its strengths but also some serious flaws. Our family has been a part of our beautiful CC community for over five years. I’ve held multiple leadership positions, and my children have benefited from the Foundations-level program. It is not ideal for all kids, though you might be told this; but in our case, the material provided a structure and also encouraged our family to learn how to learn. I enjoyed being introduced to the Classical model of education and wish I’d learned about it long ago. CC touts its Parent Practicums as "sought after" and helpful to parents. They are actually three-day-long (required for tutors) advertisements for the company. The practicum itself is free but the "camps" for kids are not. My kids had some good experiences and some bad ones, depending on the volunteers who agree to run these "camps". CC exerts significant pressure, depending on your leadership and community, to perform according to certain standards (Memory Master, etc) that not every child (or adult) can meet. Our community has always struck a balance, and we have had few if any issues with the legalistic side of things until this year. We’ve recently been forced to interact with CC representatives much more than before, and they are trained, apparently, to control their communities, often through fear, spiritual manipulation, and intimidation. Do your own research on this, but our community’s experience is far from isolated. Many of our long-term families are leaving CC completely after this year, not because of the original issues that were discussed, but because of the bullying and unprofessionalism that we have experienced. From a secular company, this would have been surprising and hurtful. From a company that claims to be a ministry and to do its work in the name of Christ, but that abuses and uses its customers, who are “just” moms trying to homeschool their children, it’s beyond offensive. CC is a for-profit company, which is of course fine. But they walk at the least a very fine line in claiming to be a ministry so that churches will open their doors and allow communities to meet on their premises, while encouraging these communities to give “donations” or “love offerings” to the churches to compensate. Again, do your own research, but it seems that they are willingly putting communities, directors and families, as well as churches at risk. The curriculum is a compilation of ideas and material from other places that are certainly not classical. They would say that the content isn’t as important as the method. But the program nothing that a parent could not put together and implement at home, and there are other far less restrictive and less expensive programs out there already that are similarly “classical” in nature. In addition, CC regularly “updates” their materials, though somehow without correcting many glaring errors, changing them just enough that books, CDs, flashcards, and other materials that you may have from previous years or older siblings have to be re-purchased at significant expense, especially if you are a tutor. Which brings us to the contracting. If you choose CC as a place for your family, you will be encouraged to “step up” and tutor. I personally loved tutoring, and having to learn the same material as my kiddos kept me accountable. However, read the contract before you sign it. Better yet, have your husband or even an attorney friend read it over. It’s not friendly and is meant, along with other methods, to control you. CC would, of course, have some reason for this, but it simply is over-the-top for essentially volunteer moms (the tutor pay is negligible). Parents who do agree to tutor must have all children in the programs to be “allowed” to step up to ensure that they are “all in”. When a parent tutor or director attempts to leave, they are frequently shamed and belittled by their “support rep”, or SR, or others further up the chain. This was my personal experience this year. I will not go into details for a number of reasons, but unless a family leaves quietly and without comment, they are warned and at times threatened, sometimes with legal action. I could say much more, and this review will likely be followed by glowing endorsements of CC contradicting my experience; but if you are still considering sending money to this organization (not ministry), please do your research first and keep your eyes and ears wide open and your heart and family guarded.
Cons: inept tutors, poor training program, essentials and foundation curriculum is rigid and does not work for every child
Grades Used: 7-12
my family has been with classical conversations a few years, and while the classical mode of education is quite beneficial with preparing for college, some serious modifications could be made in their curriculum AND tutor training programs. the essentials and foundations rely on rote memory, which does not suit every learning style. the how and the why of what they are required to memorize is not taught until the upper grades, 7-12. we are very fortunate to have found our classical conversations campus, the people are great and want to help children learn. However, the rapidly inconsistent quality of tutors needs to be closely examined. some are very helpful, while others get put in a poor training program and are inept to teach a class of young adults preparing for college. Something a 16 year old does NOT want to hear from their teacher is that they are "learning with you." The curriculum is already extremely student driven, seeing as they meet only once a week and the tutors rarely have time to dive deep enough into certain subjects. Therefore the tutors should be able to eloquently teach and not make an excuse of learning with their students. overall, classical conversations is a good program with room for much needed improvement in the two categories aforementioned. a hit or miss, for some, but currently working for my family.
Cons: curriculum they produce is riddled with errors
Grades Used: middle/high school
I will never EVER buy a first edition of ANY book or curriculum produced by Classical Conversations. The new 5th Edition Foundations Guide has errors. The Essentials Guide has errors. The first edition Math in Motion curriculum was a joke as both the student book and the answer key had many errors. Students became very frustrated as well as tutors and parents when they couldn't get support from the Academic Advisors. The Challenge A "required" expensive map book has errors. The Logic Trivium Table had to be reprinted and sent to anyone who purchased it at practicum. Be very wary of the new Art book coming out. CC can afford to hire a professional proofreader or two. There is no way some of these errors would have ever made it through to the printing press had they focused on quality vs. quantity and sales. CC curriculum is way too high priced for a company that doesn't even have the ability to offer an errata sheet on the exact page where you buy the product. Most every other curriculum company provides these details to their customers. CC also sells old editions of curriculum that doesn't match their new editions without disclosure. For example, the old Prescripts don't match the new 5th edition Guide, but they still sold those at practicum to unsuspecting families and make NO note of it on their website. They should clearly mark what edition of materials you are purchasing or put it on sale/clearance. It seems like they want to hold you hostage so you have to beg for a corrections sheet through your Director. Customer Service is of little help in dealing with these issues.
Cons: Very rigid; bad for early conceptual learners; expensive
Grades Used: 1
Classical Conversations assumes rote memorization needs to come before conceptual knowledge. After thorough research and a come-and-see, we decided this would not be a good fit for us. Don't get me wrong -- I myself was homeschooled and memorized the table of squares, pi to the 50th decimal, etc. I can still recite them. But our curious daughter wants to know the how and why, and although we believe in strong memorization, we believe it should fit within a basic conceptual framework. The load of memorization required in CC means that it will dominate, not supplement, your homeschool, and there is no way to be able to meet the weekly memorization demands while covering conceptual studies according to other scope and sequence lines. Additionally, from my own experience it is much better to take a few weeks memorizing something thoroughly, than to cram it all into one week and move onto something else, and then have to cycle back through it 3 years later. Fortunately, we don't have to choose; we plan to purchase the CC memorization cards and CDs and incorporate the memorization into our homeschool at a more grade-appropriate subject level.
Cons: Pricey but worth every bit considering it's your child's education
Grades Used: 3rd - 12th
I will start off with a bit of bragging on CC and of course my two oldest kids.;)
I have graduated two students out of CC and still have two in the upper Challenge levels. My oldest son has gone on to finish college and graduate
with honors with a degree in computer science, a STEM degree. He and my other son were more than adequately prepared for college and we did not accelerate them in any subject at all. We did the CC program verbatim because that's the kind of person I am. Although some could consider my oldest was a little behind because he started challenge 1 in his 10th grade year. So he did Physical Science 10th grade, Biology 11th grade, and Chemistry 12th grade. He didn't have any physics until college or higher level math than Precalculus. It's really not necessary to have all that the school system asks for because colleges are going to retrain their students the way they want.
Many have said that CC is pricey and some teachers are not qualified or even worse ignorant. Yes, it is expensive and yes some teachers are not qualified. I will say that most are not qualified, but this curriculum has the greatest flexibility in that YOU the parent are the one who is in charge. If the lead learner doesn't have all the facts, then you can shine and give your child more facts or better yet help your student learn how to find that information about a subject. The point of the curriculum is to train the brain how to learn new subjects and how to think logically and clearly.
Many have said that CC can be cliquish and I wouldn't disagree. It can be that way and/or seem that way. Sometimes it is a real and viable problem. CC is made up of individuals and we are all fallen sinful people in different places with our walk with God. CC corporate does have measures in place to try to prevent that from happening. It's still going to happen. My suggestion is to talk to your Area or Regional managers, but remember they aren't perfect either and also we need to thank God for the reminder that we are always under His Grace for forgiveness. Then I would recommend looking to your heart to see if anything there needs to be changed.
I'm getting ready to put my 3rd son into Challenge 4 and I am a little uncertain as to the tutor's personality. She is very qualified, but tends to take rabbit trails very often. My son who is 17 tends to get frustrated by people like that. We are putting him in that class because the curriculum is SO good and with the idea that he will meet professors in college and bosses for his future job that will be like that. He will need to learn self-control with people.
Bottom line is, Classical Conversations will prepare your child for excellence in college including STEM degrees without doing anything extra.
Cons: All the negatives associated with multi-media marketing
Grades Used: K-10
We were involved with Classical Conversations for many years and I served in various leadership roles. On the plus side, we developed some very good friendships and were close to a number of families involved in the program. As a parent, I stayed with my kids in their classes and enjoyed being a part without feeling unwanted by the tutor. CC welcomes parent observation more than any other homeschool program I have been a part of.
However, this is a multi- marketing business. I can honestly say that after being a part for so many years. The focus is first to generate money and second to serve homeschool families. I will go through the contract to illustrate this point.
When signing up for CC, parents agree to pay the entire tuition by July for the entire year. It does not matter if a child gets sick or even if a family moves away. CC makes no provisions. I saw this happen to a family with three children. The dad got transferred during the first semester and that family lost $2,000.
The contract strongly encourages parents to purchase products from CC. There is no website or effort on the part of CC to help parents keep down costs by buying used curriculum. Practicums have a CC book table. This would be a wonderful opportunity for parents to sell used curriculum, but CC corporate will not allow it because they want you to buy from them brand new. CC is likewise constantly updating with new editions, making families purchase even more books from them.
The contract claims that CC class prices are similar to other co ops. This is not true. What the contract does not say is that CC Essentials and Foundations have 24 weeks of instruction per year and Challenge has 30. Public and private schools have 36 weeks per year. We did the math, and the price of CC is more per each hour of instruction than the local schools in our area except for one. Only the schools have certified teachers and there is no requirement at CC.
Beyond the contract, there are numerous rules CC Corporate has instilled that serve them to make money. The whole point of homeschool is to empower each family to make their own decisions. However, CC families, particularly those in the Challenge programs, cannot do this. Rules like a director must have ALL of her kids in the program, even highs schoolers, to continue her job. So many talented directors lost their jobs over this. If a high schooler whose parents directs at CC wants to take dual enrollment at a Community College, for example, they cannot do this unless their mom quits her job, even if she has kids in the other parts of the program like Essentials and Foundations. Why does CC have this rule? Becuase it forces directors to keep their kids in the program, which equals more money for corporate.
I would encourage you to do some research on the Bortins family before signing up. Before starting, CC Leigh entered an entrepreneur contest. She had to abandon her plan, which was selling homeschool curriculum, because she was charging families $1,000 per year and her clients found that price too high. A few years ago she bought a huge multi-level sports complex in North Carolina. Like others at the top of multi-marketing companies, she is wealthy. Please be aware that a portion of your tuition goes directly to the Bortin family. Her son, who took over at age 26, currently leads CC. He had no children of his own at the time and his wife also took a high leadership position.
I would also investigate the whole controversy of how directors are classified and receive compensation. Space does not allow me to go into the details, but there are quite a few websites on this topic.
Cons: Wish I would have started my oldest sooner
Grades Used: 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 plan on going to 12th
I love the fact you can visit a CC community day anytime or at an open house and see how it is run. That is how I first decided to enroll. I liked the fact that the parents leading the classes are tutors and I am the teacher. I like the fact they get at CC what I can not replicate at home...peer accountability and community, It was nice to experience an educational model based on truth, beauty and goodness. Interactions with one another ought to follow the principles in Matthew 18. I really like having the curriculum laid out for me and the options to add or reduce as I feel appropriate. In the Foundations stages we were able to concentrate on the Grammar stage of memorization for community day and at home go deeper into each subject if we wanted. These memory pegs are there and daily life adds more to their understanding of each piece of memorization. Learning about the Classical Model helped me to really understand the process of learning. I early retired from the public school system so I wasn't really familiar. Now my older children are in 7th, 9th and 10th grades...I am amazed at how well my children can articulate, debate, use logic, decifer and see God in everything that they learn. CC is much more than a basic education; it addresses the heart and mind. Had I not researched the program and became informed i would have been confused with the processes and procedures. No program is perfect...we found one that fits us. No family is perfect, church or organization. We have learned how to be a part of something wonderfully imperfect and let God teach us some beautiful lessons together. I encourage you to become informed, read Echo In Celebration (Free), The Core and for the middle school years The Question & The Conversation...it makes so much more sense when you understand the Classical Model. God Bless you on your journey to finding the best education choice for your family.
Cons: No Assurance of Group Quality, Some Hostile Staff
Grades Used: K,5
We just had an unfortunate experience with CC.
We have been using the CC curriculum for 3 years now. The first year we were in a different state. Great group, great director, I also talked to the regional director: very friendly & helpful. We moved to a different state & joined a group that was new.
After three sessions, the class day was changed for the convenience of the people running the group, which meant my family would have to miss a few classes for dental appointments I'd made with the understanding the class was on a certain day. Not such a big deal, but not ideal.
Then one week on a Sunday night the director sent out an email canceling class on Thursday for fall vacation. A mother who was not the director, whose husband was a tutor, then sent out an email on Tuesday unilaterally reinstating class on Thursday.
I saw the email from the director canceling class, but I didn't see the email reinstating class, which just looked like a reply to the group. And nobody bothered to call or text us that class was actually still on, so we simply missed class that week.
Another issue was that my kindergartner's tutor was not not strictly adhering to the curriculum. She was bringing in books she liked and reading them to the class. That is nice, but I paid for the curriculum.
Finally, the group was imposing all these other obligations on me. We have four children, and I help my elderly mother, so I'm stretched. I was getting texts telling me to bring gifts for the tutors and to bring potluck meals.
I don't understand why no one could bother to contact me that they had reinstated class after they canceled it, but they could contact me to tell me to bring gifts for the tutors.
We withdrew from the class, and I sent an email to a director. She called me, was very emotionally empathetic, but no suggestion of actually speaking with the people running the group.
I paid almost a thousand dollars to enroll my children in this group this year. I was floored that it was being run so lackadaisically, with zero mechanism for correcting a "rogue group."
I sent another email to the director and the regional director, noting the points I've just made above. Number one, because it isn't my style to withdraw from a commitment without explaining why. Number two, I thought feedback would be valuable since it was a new group.
The regional director called me, and basically ambushed me over the phone. I received one of the nastiest most harassing calls I've ever received in my life (while watching my children at the playground).
She accused me of "rejecting community" and kept saying she was "very concerned about me" because I was "rejecting community." I answered something like "That's crazy," and she turned to someone present with her and asked "Did you get that?" in reference to my statement. I was like "Am I on speaker? What is going on here?"
I got off the phone by firmly asking her not to call me again.
I sent a communication to corporate, basically telling them I did not want this madwoman harassing me anymore (since she was doing so as their representative).
They sent me an email apologizing and asking for forgiveness. Sure, I forgive them, but man, would I not join another CC group!